to some new officers

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old sweat
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Re: to some new officers

Post by old sweat » Mon Sep 01, 2008 7:28 pm

I forgot to mention, body armour will be issued to all staff for planned C&R when the new C&R contract is completed.

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Re: to some new officers

Post by DUCKBILL » Mon Sep 01, 2008 7:37 pm

Miquay wrote:I don't, but there was seriousness behind the query on do coolmax vests keep you cooler and drier than if you don't wear one?
M
:slnuts:
I wondered the same so went on google and apparently that is the big selling point draws moisture and heat away from the body.
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Re: to some new officers

Post by Muttly » Tue Sep 02, 2008 6:42 pm

Got a few of the canterbury ones from work and have to say they are awesome....Got a mix of the cold wear ones and the hot wear and, they do keep you unbelievably cool.....Recomend them to anyone
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Re: to some new officers

Post by 1993 » Tue Sep 02, 2008 6:49 pm

old sweat wrote:Skippy, re body armour, the latest generation of PSDB approved HG1A/kr1/sp1 armour is lightweight & is about 7-10m thick & soft. I am not aware of what 1993 said re not being covered if injuried wearing one.if the vest saves your life then the prison service would be mad to say you are not covered!ANY ppe is better than none!!!
Sweat - I'm on about the standard heavy stab vests you shoudl have in the C&R store. They aint approved YET so technically instructions from centre are that you aint covered if you get injured whilst wearing them. I always wear them and give to my teams but they have to be told. Silly but we've been here before havent we?

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Re: to some new officers

Post by falkor » Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:33 pm

have they been approved yet? and .....
old sweat wrote:Looking at many of the questions by new/would be officers on this forum, quite a few are about 'kit/uniform'. I've said it before & I'll say it again (over 20 yrs in the job)
Don't run before you can walk!!!
footware- safety shoes or boots ( protective toe caps are a good idea)- the make is irrelevent, as long as they are comfy to wear( you could be wearing them for over 12 hrs
belts- you should be issued with them, if not then get a 50mm 3 point locking belt -try niton999/gladstone boots
pouches- a pen pouch would be useful ( see above ) as for the rest, you should be issued with radio/cuff pouch when required.In time you could buy your own,but wait at least a year, the worst thing you can do is join the job and turn up looking like 'robo screw' -what a wally-
under armour /coolmax t shirts- whats wrong with a white t shirt type vest from M&S they only cost £10 for 3 good value- who is going to see them!
slash proof uniform gloves- a good idea for 'hands on' or searching, police wear them most of the time when they know they are getting hands on or searching, get a pair, they are a good idea, I got mine a couple of years ago when the prices went down.Trawl the internet for a good price ( £10-£20)
body armour!!!!! worn by some officers covertly- this is an expensive 'up to you move'. If you decide to get one ( it will depend on the type of cons you have/amount of assaults on staff etc) make sure it will give HG1A ballistic, KR1/SP1 ( knife/spike) protection) & be PSDB approved.If you do buy a set you could get the mick taken out of you buy staff & cons( they will find out you are wearing it!!)
mini maglite type torch- a good idea for nights/cell searching-get one

A few more tips, hair wear it short( ladies tied up) the longer the hair the easier you can be grabbed by it- think personal protection
jewellery, a plain band wedding type is about all you need , why wear a neckless, bracelet, ear rings, nose rings, toungue studs etc, you will only damage them or injure yourself if you get into a ruck- again think personal protection/safety

And lastly IRON your uniform & polish your shoes a scruffy officer is a sloppy officer :slby:
well said old sweat - a picture is worth a thousand words, in your case it's the other way around :sltgn:

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Re: to some new officers

Post by Crumbling Victorian Cat B » Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:14 pm

1993 wrote:
old sweat wrote:Skippy, re body armour, the latest generation of PSDB approved HG1A/kr1/sp1 armour is lightweight & is about 7-10m thick & soft. I am not aware of what 1993 said re not being covered if injuried wearing one.if the vest saves your life then the prison service would be mad to say you are not covered!ANY ppe is better than none!!!
Sweat - I'm on about the standard heavy stab vests you shoudl have in the C&R store. They aint approved YET so technically instructions from centre are that you aint covered if you get injured whilst wearing them. I always wear them and give to my teams but they have to be told. Silly but we've been here before havent we?
Wouldn’t that be like the barrack room lawyers stating that if your shift starts at 07.30,but enter the prison at 07.15 and get injured you’re not insured cause your shift has not started and therefore the service is not liable.
The only way I can see the service saying your not insured wearing these vests, is if your are injured through the bad fitting or faulty design
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Re: to some new officers

Post by 1993 » Mon Oct 20, 2008 7:35 pm

Crumbling Victorian Cat B wrote: Wouldn’t that be like the barrack room lawyers stating that if your shift starts at 07.30,but enter the prison at 07.15 and get injured you’re not insured cause your shift has not started and therefore the service is not liable.
The only way I can see the service saying your not insured wearing these vests, is if your are injured through the bad fitting or faulty design
Mmm.. actually this really happened to a guy who got injured when slipping on ice inside the nick at 0730 when he was an 0800 start. Because his shift wasnt on, he wasnt covered on insurance. This was posted in the Gatelodge, not by some bitter screw but by the POA solicitors. Does seem silly and I think he won the argument in court but is sort of true.

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Re: to some new officers

Post by Skippy » Mon Oct 20, 2008 7:41 pm

If there isn't a warning sign stating that there is ice and that it might be slippery and / or the area hadn't been gritted, then the prison would still be at fault as they hadn't taken all steps 'in so far as reasonably practical' to prevent the accident.

Guess who's been skimming through H&S stuff for their union recently ? :slbg:
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Re: to some new officers

Post by Self Tapper » Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:06 pm

Crumbling Victorian Cat B wrote:
Wouldn’t that be like the barrack room lawyers stating that if your shift starts at 07.30,but enter the prison at 07.15 and get injured you’re not insured cause your shift has not started and therefore the service is not liable.
The only way I can see the service saying your not insured wearing these vests, is if your are injured through the bad fitting or faulty design

Mmm.. actually this really happened to a guy who got injured when slipping on ice inside the nick at 0730 when he was an 0800 start. Because his shift wasnt on, he wasnt covered on insurance. This was posted in the Gatelodge, not by some bitter screw but by the POA solicitors. Does seem silly and I think he won the argument in court but is sort of true.
Dont believe this would be a tough one to deal with in court at all for even a half competent lawyer. He had reasonable cause to be there and all reasonable precautions to avoid an accident had not been taken. Case closed. Had his shift started at 07:30 he would have had the same accident so no contest methinks. Old wives tales.
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Re: to some new officers

Post by Easylife » Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:04 pm

Self Tapper wrote:
Crumbling Victorian Cat B wrote:
Wouldn’t that be like the barrack room lawyers stating that if your shift starts at 07.30,but enter the prison at 07.15 and get injured you’re not insured cause your shift has not started and therefore the service is not liable.
The only way I can see the service saying your not insured wearing these vests, is if your are injured through the bad fitting or faulty design

Mmm.. actually this really happened to a guy who got injured when slipping on ice inside the nick at 0730 when he was an 0800 start. Because his shift wasnt on, he wasnt covered on insurance. This was posted in the Gatelodge, not by some bitter screw but by the POA solicitors. Does seem silly and I think he won the argument in court but is sort of true.
Dont believe this would be a tough one to deal with in court at all for even a half competent lawyer. He had reasonable cause to be there and all reasonable precautions to avoid an accident had not been taken. Case closed. Had his shift started at 07:30 he would have had the same accident so no contest methinks. Old wives tales.[/quote

so the argument about being covered by insurance before your start time still rages. What is the answer then? are you ? or not ? Why with the existance of so called unions, is it still a mystery?
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Re: to some new officers

Post by Guest » Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:29 pm

All this crap about ballistic vest etc is totally rubbish. If you are required to wear PPE for a cell removal or any other incident it will be issued or you dont do the removal. You can obtain gloves from your stores that are needle proof ( as much as they can be ) Many jails will not allow personal torches to be carried as you will find out when attempting to enter with one.Just wear whatever you would normally wear we are not the SAS. A notebook is always handy, if you promice a prisoner you will do something then write it down so you dont forget and just be yourself.

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Re: to some new officers

Post by Control » Tue Jan 27, 2009 6:23 pm

Guest wrote:All this crap about ballistic vest etc is totally rubbish. If you are required to wear PPE for a cell removal or any other incident it will be issued or you dont do the removal. You can obtain gloves from your stores that are needle proof ( as much as they can be ) Many jails will not allow personal torches to be carried as you will find out when attempting to enter with one.Just wear whatever you would normally wear we are not the SAS. A notebook is always handy, if you promice a prisoner you will do something then write it down so you dont forget and just be yourself.
Hi Guest,
Interesting, just wondering why a note book would be handy on a planned intervention, will there be things you need to write down on the way into the cell.?
Also would you be promising things to a prisoner on a planned intervention, if so what could they be?

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Re: to some new officers

Post by Easylife » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:36 pm

Control wrote:
Guest wrote:All this crap about ballistic vest etc is totally rubbish. If you are required to wear PPE for a cell removal or any other incident it will be issued or you dont do the removal. You can obtain gloves from your stores that are needle proof ( as much as they can be ) Many jails will not allow personal torches to be carried as you will find out when attempting to enter with one.Just wear whatever you would normally wear we are not the SAS. A notebook is always handy, if you promice a prisoner you will do something then write it down so you dont forget and just be yourself.
Hi Guest,
Interesting, just wondering why a note book would be handy on a planned intervention, will there be things you need to write down on the way into the cell.?
Also would you be promising things to a prisoner on a planned intervention, if so what could they be?
I would have thought that a drawing pad would be more use in a planned intervention.If the video camera stops working ,you can knock up a quick sketch for the IMB.It is unlikely that the prison service management would be able to return them but they might be displayed at the next POA meeting.I also understand that the last time the SAS came into a prison for a takeout they wore trainers.Not recommended for everyday use. :slbg:
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Re: to some new officers

Post by Control » Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:06 pm

Easylife wrote:
Control wrote:
Guest wrote:All this crap about ballistic vest etc is totally rubbish. If you are required to wear PPE for a cell removal or any other incident it will be issued or you dont do the removal. You can obtain gloves from your stores that are needle proof ( as much as they can be ) Many jails will not allow personal torches to be carried as you will find out when attempting to enter with one.Just wear whatever you would normally wear we are not the SAS. A notebook is always handy, if you promice a prisoner you will do something then write it down so you dont forget and just be yourself.
Hi Guest,
Interesting, just wondering why a note book would be handy on a planned intervention, will there be things you need to write down on the way into the cell.?
Also would you be promising things to a prisoner on a planned intervention, if so what could they be?
I would have thought that a drawing pad would be more use in a planned intervention.If the video camera stops working ,you can knock up a quick sketch for the IMB.It is unlikely that the prison service management would be able to return them but they might be displayed at the next POA meeting.I also understand that the last time the SAS came into a prison for a takeout they wore trainers.Not recommended for everyday use. :slbg:
I take it on a planned intervention a pen and paper is not really necessary then?
What happens it the Video camera does stop working, have you and the prisoner got to go back to the beginning where it all started, to start all over again should imagine that’s a lot of stress on the prisoner

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Re: to some new officers

Post by Easylife » Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:14 pm

No mate no notebooks in a planned takeout.Half the time there is no batteries in the camera anyway.Most of the time the prisoners stroll out under their own steam having made their point and bimble up to the seg ,which is the desired result.Prisoner unhurt ,staff unhurt ,governor and imb happy.Jobs a goodun!
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